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Shastinaoffline

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  • Shastina

    10 months, 1 week ago
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. (Plato)
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    • There are no good people. There are no bad people. There are only people who have the potential at any given moment to act with good or bad intentions either of which may have good or bad results.

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      • what about people who kill and steal and prey on people? i feel like those people are bad.

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        • People are not bad. Actions are good or bad. To quote a phrase with which I grew up, love the sinner not the sin. Separate the action from the person. People may do incredibly horrific things, when backed into a corner – whether its a financial corner, a social corner, or a corner of their own mind.

          There is a story I like:

          A man went to visit a cousin in a distant mountain village. While he was there two men died. The first was a pious man who never gave anyone any offense, derided them, spoke sparringly, and interferred in no one’s affairs. Upon his death, only his wife and youngest child, who still lived at home, attended his funeral. The next man to die was a profligate who was boisterous, demanding, lecherous, wasteful, and in many ways libertine. All the shops in the village closed as everyone attended his funeral.

          Puzzled the visitor asked his cousin the meaning of this riddle and his cousin answered: The pious man stayed to himself, he spent all his hours studying scripture, he ate only turnips, and he drank only water. This other man bought roasts from the butcher, bread from the baker, wine from the vintner, jewelry for his women from the jeweler, the latest fashions each month from the tailor, and the pious man’s wife laundered his clothes. By him the whole village profited

          One cannot love G-d who does not love man. One does not love man if the fruits of one’s life benefit nothing. Which did more of the work of G-d? What then would we judge as good? The man who buried his talent under the rock of his faith, or the man who in living his life and benefited the faithful?

          The city near where I live didn’t suffer the Great Depression, supported the development of Jazz with 42 jazz clubs, never charged a single person for possession of alcohol through all of prohibition, had a huge and well known red light district protected by the police, supported illegal gambling dens and race tracks, and with the money made through criminal contacts and political control put in sidewalks, sewers, street lights, running water, electricity, a massive train station, an airport, built new homes for blue collar workers, and tripled the size of the city while being run by a criminal. But he made sure people had work and that families could eat in spite of being a thief, and most likely responsible for a number of deaths among those that crossed him or his Mafia allies.

          Life is never so simple as it seems. We strive for the better, but it is always good that G-d is the Author of Days who sees better than we do in His judgments. That is just how I see it, and I apologize if that offends you.

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          • The motivations behind the actions are good or bad. There is wrong and right. Period.

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            • not everything is black and white. imagine someone shot a human. well that is bad, but the reason why is because that someone threatened to kill them. so it saved everyone in the long run. turns out that someone was actually playing a joke and is not mentally stable. so it was bad? maybe? it was bad overall because one person died when no one was going to, but the person who shot them did it in self defense, and.. yeah.

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              • We are talking about Good & Evil…i.e Right from Wrong. God said that when one is born..he/she is born with that concept already…he put it in us. It beomes stronger or weaker depending on our relationship/communication or lack there of with him. We are just vessels that carry both, but which one do we feed to grow in us…Good or Evil? To us, a person may seem incapable due to disabilities, but God knows that is not the case…because we are all capable of either.

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                • oh so you believe in god?

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                • conserview1, the value of the ideas contained in the bible are applicable in life even if you do not believe in a Supreme Being. That good and evil ; yin and yang ; up quark down quark possibilities exist and promoting one over the other can increase its existence is too contained in biblically recorded ideas like ‘as you sew, so shall you reap’. in common parlance if you incentivize a thing you will get MORE of it.

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          • God said there are evil people. So appearantly there are bad people. This is not a grey area. That’s why there is a battle of good and evil that God speaks about. God said that if we are llukewarm he will spit us out…that we must be on one side or the other. Not my opinon …I don’t argue with God.

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            • G-d said that He loved all people so much that He gave the life of His only begotten Son that they might all receive eternal life. He also said that all have fallen short of the glory of G-d. That does not make their soul evil, but their actions evil. The prophets talk about the wickedness of the hearts of people, but they differentiate the thoughts, the words, and the deeds from the soul of the individual. People are not evil, some of their actions are. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

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              • A person who CHOOSES of free will to do evil acts is evil. Its easy to distinguish.

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                • There are two breeds of humans. Cain (rebellious seed) and Able (righteous seed).
                  That is how we get Cannable.

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                  • Scripture does not support what you are saying here. Cain had a choice as we all do. God told him where he went wrong and how to fix it. Cain chose otherwise. In the scripture it says there is none righteous, no not one, so we are all born with the rebellious sin nature due to Adam’s poor decision to eat the fruit, that includes Abel. What it comes down to is this, the choice that you make ultimately reflects what is in your heart and is also a determining factor on whether you are a decent person or a vile person. Those who choose not to do wrong although not perfect are descent people, vice versa, but no amount of good will make you right with God you must be washed in the blood of Jesus and forgiven.

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                    • That is a perspective held by some. My faith does not agree. As children are conceived in sin sin groweth up and conceiveth in their hearts. G-d remembers the sins of the father’s unto the 3rd and the 4th generation of them who hate the Lord. In other words, as parents are an example of sin G-d does not hold the child accountable for honoring their parents in their sin, following their parents in their sin, in so far as the child has not reached accountability and had the opportunity to comprehend the bad example of the previous generations. All persons are judged according to their own failures not the transgressions of others. All justified persons receive a house in heaven that is individual to their own experience because some can live closer to the purity of G-d than can others. That the individual is not as pure as G-d does not prevent G-d from justifying them to that capacity they are willing to receive. But G-d has already chosen us, sacrificed for us.

                      And you are ignoring the parable of the brethren, sheep, and goats. The brethren are those in the body of Christ, saved by the blood of the Lamb. But the sheep are those who did not receive Christ, but were moral in their treatment of the Brethren having done good to the least of those who serve G-d.

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                      • Man that is a lot you said! just a short response on this, it is true that the sins of the parents can be visited upon the third and forth generation no doubt, but if they come into the knowledge of the truth and receive Jesus in their heart they will be saved. The blood overcomes all of that. That is the whole point of what I am saying. It takes more of couse than just being good to be in eternity with God we have to have a relationship with Him which comes through the blood, I am however not tracking where you disagree with me.

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            • I am not sure why the like buttons seem to be randomly grayed out and not responding, btw. 🤔

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          • he also said there is none good but the father in heaven

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          • That is a good story. Thank you for sharing.
            My pastor Rick Warren reminds us to hate the sin not the sinner. He preaches how we should always love our Christian brothers and sisters and about how we should forgive them of their transgressions. I like to think of myself as a very forgiving person but not forgetful. We can’t forget the actions of evil. I would like to think that people aren’t bad, but just that their actions are bad. I agree with you that good people make bad decisions based on life circumstances and they can change and learn from their mistakes.

            However, I don’t see that as the case for every person, I do believe some people are just evil. I think science helps to back that statement. For example, I think pedophiles are the devil in disguise, no soul, no regard for life, no regard for the innocence of our children. Science confirms that a pedophile can not change his/her ways. They lack the free will that God has given to us to make good or evil choices because they are inherently evil. They are unrepairable or irreparable if you consider them human. A Pedophile in no way contributes to society. A pedophile will never learn from their evil ways becuase to them its not evil, they believe that their actions are true and pure. DNA doesn’t change. Their DNA is evil therefore I believe they should be immediatly removed from society.

            What would you do if the devil was standing right in front of you?

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      • This isn’t correct I have seen truly bad people with only the most evil of intent. It is about personal choice. We are made up of both good and evil. It is a constant battle. Because you cannot have good without bad. IMHO.

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        • It’s like that old proverb about two wolves. You have two of them inside of you, and the one you feed is the one that becomes stronger. One of those wolves is gay. The other wolf is also gay.

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      • Disagree: There are truly “Evil” people in this world, and there are those of honor having high morals who strive to bring light into the world. No one but Jesus was perfect, but there are many who are Good Nobel People who live “Good” Lives helping make this world a better place!!!

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      • One of the things that I have learned is this, whatever the motivations and intentions of your heart are, that will you do. Because we live in a imperfect and fallen world and are flawed as people, we need a moral standard to follow, the most perfect of that being the “Ten Commandments”. Although we will mess up from time to time, the standard is there to help us stay on track. Just think, if everyone did their best to follow the “Law of God” this world would certainly be a better place. Otherwise, right and wrong are relative and people will just do what is right in their own eyes. I understand if there are those that disagree, but that is the way I see it, but I still would love to hear what you have to say.

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      • The Holy Bible says “the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it” . Therefore mankind must look for something or somebody outside of himself for guidance to be good.

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      • Sorry, gotta call BS on that little bit of baloney. You can tell a tree by the fruit it bears. Period. Now a conversation can be had about how to tell! but the fruit is the fruit…. its not relativism.

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        • We are not naturally born knowing how to do right, I know that from my own life and the kids I am raising, I remember my oldest when she was being potty trained she had a accident and tried to hide it from us, of course we had to correct her, I say this to say that righteousness must be taught otherwise any fruit you bear is evil. Before coming to Christ any thing that I did that I thought was right may have been just that, but what was the motivation behind it? It certainly wasn’t always to help someone, sometime my reasons were outright selfiish, but I rationalized it in my own mind as right which is why it was relative. Now any thing I do, I do to help others and please God.

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          • Also just because someone comes from a ‘bad tree’ doesn’t mean that they will be bad and bear bad fruit. There is always a possibility that they can change. At some point in ouir lives we all have bore bad fruit.

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        • I have not promoted anything about relativism. I neither accept moral relativity nor do I accept Objectivist arguments from the disciples of Ayn Rand.

      • telling people that there’s nothing wrong with them, which goes against the teachings of the bible, isn’t loving them it’s enabling them. if they don’t know that they are bad without Jesus they won’t even bother getting to know him.

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        • I agree with you, we have to keep it real with each other, but do so in a spirit of love. If we never address sin with people and introduce them to Jesus, they will never get to know Him and you are right we enable people instead of telling them the truth. The challenge is that people don’t always want to hear it, but would rather hear flattering words which only encourage them to continue in wrong doing.

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          • absolutely. telling them that there is no bad or good will make them think that they have no need to be saved just try to be good, and of course it’s by faith that we are saved not by works lest any man should boast.

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    • We are all evil. If we have broken even one of the 10 commandments we have broken them all. Even the good that we do is likened to menstal rags. It is only through Christ that we are made righteous. The only thing that separates the “good” people and the “bad” people is the blood of Jesus. We must be humble enough to remember that He died for ALL of mankind and not only those who we deem, in our own prideful hearts, as “bad”.

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      • Absolutely, it is only by His blood, and any semblance of righteousness that I think I have it is because he applied it to me. I never get to the point where I think I am above sin or the ability to sin and I definitely don’t think that I am better than anyone. My only hope is that people that don’t know Him will give Him a chance after all, what else do you have to lose. I have been blessed since I committed my life to Him.

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      • we’re all bad. we’re arguing the existential point that there’s no such thing as good or bad not that only certain people are. telling people that good and bad doesn’t exist is better off regulated to a hippie jam festeval.

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        • That isn’t the point I argued at all. I stated that people are not good or evil. People are the potential to choose to do good or evil. Across their lifetimes no one will manage to always do only one or only the other. That doesn’t change the fact that the soul is neither good nor evil, the person. It may acrue a history of good and bad deeds, even one more than the other.

          There is a Jewish story about a pious man who dies and appears before the Tribunal of Heaven to be judged. As he approaches the Angels begin to sing for they can see nothing wrong with this man and say to themselves surely this will be the first man to enter heaven, The defending attorney extolls all the virtues of the man’s life going on and on for hours. But as the defense drew its arguments to a close, the prosecuting angel, ha-Satan, said he knew that this man had committed a wicked deed. The angels did not believe him so he called a gnat to witness. Then the gnat told how he was out on the Sabbath and could not make it home within the limited number of steps he was allowed to take under the law, so he took his rest upon the pious man’s ear. The pious man then feeling his ear tickled reached up and crushed the gnat, taking a life on the Sabbath. The angels were agast, and not knowing how to decide over such a heinous crime they placed the gnat and the pious man in a cell to wait until the judgment of the Messiah would come.

          The next up was a reprobate of the worst kind. As he entered the angels glared, and the prosecutor began to declare all the sins of the man’s life, again taking hours to slog through. But the defending attorney said he had a witness that the man had done a good deed. The angels scoffed, but the defending attorney summoned a witness. The incredibly beautiful woman entered and took the stand. She told of how she had gone outside to pick some herbs for supper when the house caught on fire with her new born baby inside. She then told how this profligate had, with no thought for the safety of his own life lept through a window into the burning home and brought her the baby safe and alife. And the defending attorney argued that if the taking of a life by a pious man was sufficient to place the fate of his soul in doubt until Messiah should come, then the saving of a life was equally sufficient to place the soul of a sinner in doubt until Messiah should come and judge righteously without error. So the sinful man and the beautiful woman were placed in a cell together to wait until the Messiah should come.

          And is it not written that the saving of even one soul shall also save the one who saved them? Though the saints shall judge angels, still we would do well to remember that the judgment is of actions not of persons. G-d is no respecter of persons, causing it to rain upon the just and the unjust alike. G-d does not offer salvation only to the righteous, and though we are a religion of hypocrites, aspiring to and preaching of a level of moral behavior we know we will not attain, the problem isn’t in our person, but in our actions – our choices from the imperfection of our knowledge and understanding. Being inadequate is no sin.

          • people are evil. the bible clearly states that time and time again. did you really have to type an essay?

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            • Yes, my mother always said never do anything half-way. Go all the way or don’t go. The bible talks about people having the capacity to sin. It holds that in comparison to the perfection (maturity) and purity of G-d all things are corrupt or less than G-d. But G-d would not call people to be mature/perfect as G-d is perfect if we lacked the capability. If we were evil by the nature of what we are we could none of us strive to be good and remain sane. And if that were the case then even G-d would be merely a pernicious and mischievous being who made humanity merely to torture it. That is not the case. Souls are not good or evil. The entire point of their being condemnable comes from that fact. They have a choice to do right and choose to do evil on occasion. The bible is not nearly as clear as you think it is. I suggest you go and learn the Hebrew and start studying first the Masoretic Text and then learn the Koine and compare the two languages where Christ speaks.

              • you are delving very close to blashpemy because i have a couple different lateral bibles and i guarantee you God never made an existentialist arguement for people being neutral. i’m not going to sit here and explain the entire word of GOD to you, a name you seem afraid to even type. we are evil because of adam and eve’s sin in the garden which even a sunday school student would know. i assume you are here to sew tares so i think we’re done here.

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                • You cannot believe in the salvation of mankind by Christ whose obedience established it and hold to original sin from Adam whose disobedience caused the need of his sacrifice. Either Christ atoned and original sin is no more, or Christ did not and the first sin curses you who had nothing to do with it. Either we are free of the sins of our fathers to be responsible for our own, or you should start saving up to pay reparations for ancestors you never met having slaves you know nothing about – because that is your belief.

                  • stop your lies. i’m utterly sick of hearing them.

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                    • You are free not to encounter.

                      However, the fact remains: If you are evil by the nature of what you are you cannot strive to be good and remain sane.

                      • without salvation. do you not understand what leave me alone means? stop talking to me. i’ve had enough of this farcical debate. you are preaching jehobahs witness nonsense and i don’t want to hear it. you don’t care about what i say as is evidenced by this argument. leave me alone.

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              • i’ve never listened to or read anything by ayn rand, what i’ve read is the bible and relativism is saying that good and bad are relative. which you have been doing this entire conversation. i’d love for you to show me that in the bible though, but it isnt there.

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          • the only good in any of us is Jesus. telling potentially unsaved people that they aren’t good or evil is a lot more damaging than i think you even realize. that’s existential relativism and is just a false stance and one that Christ never once proclaimed.

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          • you speak much and say very little. you speak relative existentialism and claim it’s inspired by God. you won’t even speak the NAME God. what Jesus flavored cult are you in anyways? jahovah’s witness is my first guess.

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            • I do not only converse with other Christians, I also converse with Jews. It is unethical to write or speak the name of G-d in their forums. I keep the habbit so as not to be offensive, even though I do not consider “G-d” to be the words which ha-Shem represents. There are many names of G-d which He has given, and the only one that matters is the self-declaration: I AM; this is the principle upon which He knows Himself.

              And no, recognition that persons and their actions are distinctly separate, even in the eyes of G-d does not make me an existentialist. Existentialists are failed empiracists who once each believed that the world could be explained away by reason, and abandoned reason for various degress of nihilism.

              However, I recognize your antipathy and will not reward it.

    • Absolutely. Love is the key. if we love God and love our neighbor we will keep the commandments. I am with you on that. Jesus said Himself if you love me you will keep my commandments.

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    • The like button still does not work for me at all.

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    • If that is the case, agreed.

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    • Well if this was true. Why did send his only son to pay for our sins?

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